DIY adjustable rear camber arms

[16V4NRBRGR]

I figured I'd start a thread for the open-source collection of information (especially dimensions) regarding the construction of adjustable rear camber arms. There are a lot of universal adjustable suspension links in various lengths, rod ends, and misalignment spacers available online. If we get our heads together on the required dimensions for the camber links we can make a plan for putting together a set using common tools.

Here's some of the universal products I'm talking about:
Aluminum Suspension Tubes : Steel Suspension Tubes : Radius Rods : Trailing Arms : Hex Aluminum Suspension Tubes : Swedged Steel Suspension Tubes
Suspension Tubes - PPM Online Store
McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr
RideTech ROD1000 - RideTech Replacement Rod Ends - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Howe Racing 31865L - Howe Rubber Insert Rod Ends - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Currie Enterprises CE-9112SP - Currie Enterprises Johnny Joint Rod Ends - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Poly Performance Inc.*::*Rod End Hardware*::*Misalignment Spacers - Jeep JK Synergy Suspension Systems, Fox Racing Shox, Beard, CTM, Johnny Joints®, Currie Enterprises, Edelbrock, Pit Bull Tires, Ramsey Winch, ARB, Walker Evans, Wilwood, Mastercraft, CNC Braking, Sway-A-Way (RaceRunner) Shocks, Co2 & Nitrogen Kits, Total Chaos, more....
Rod End Accessories

My intention of this thread is to make a resource to refer to for ordering a combination of these universal products and installing the parts with minor fabrication, if needed. I can make blueprints of the dimensions on Solidworks if the pieces of the puzzle can be filled in. To anybody with an OEM camber strut or rear subframe laying around, these dimensions would help toward building an low-cost DIY solution:

Overall length, eye center-to-center:
Eye diameters on each end
Subframe end:
Knuckle end:
Eye widths on each end
Subframe end:
Knuckle end:
Width of double shear mounting clevis on subframe:

I think this would be a nice reference to have on the Rev, especially because venders come and go over time, and the components utilized could be determined by the individual depending on budget and the intended use of the car.

Since my car's not apart right now, figured I'd post this first since there's always a member's car up on stands getting suspension service at any given time. I'll fill in the blanks myself if nobody beats me to it. I'm also considering reverse engineering the OEM arm, to perform a CAD FEA study on it, and determining the minimum safe specs for an adjustable replacement.

Thanks!

[vrtblazer]

i just bought a set from speedybenz.com and they fit great, they were at a good price too

[16V4NRBRGR]

Those are very nice, although a DIY approach would yield the same end product for less. The reducer bushings for the eyes of the rod-ends are the custom part of that product, the other parts can be ordered separately for less. With all of the critical dimensions required disclosed here, reducer bushings or tapered spacers can be modified to mount the commonly available rod-ends and suspension tubes to the sub-frame and hub carrier knuckle.

[16V4NRBRGR]

Here's some NYLON bushing rod-ends that would be ideal for a street car:
Mr. Roadster 4-Bar Rod Ends
A kit of replacement bushings for the rod-ends above:
Rod End Bushing Kit - 1/2 Inch
Steel rod ends with reducer spacer bushings included:
AFCO Rod End and Spacer Kits

[george3soccer]

I like sure wish I had extra cash and time laying around would convert everything once and for all.

[190E AMG]

Wow, this is looking like it is going to be a great resource, lets try and make this happen. I think beatbox is going to post the link lengths when he has a chance.

[16V4NRBRGR]

I asked an eBay vender if he'd just sell me the adapters for using standard rod-ends on the metric bolts for the camber arms. He hasn't responded back, I think he knows that I know his links use universal products, exactly like those I listed above.

I'm going to need camber arms once I install the H&R sport cup kit on my 8v, I'll at least try to get dimensions for the rod end adapter bushings, maybe see if my friend can set up the CNC machine to turn out a bunch of them real quick.

[arsenix]

Originally Posted by 16V4NRBRGR

Here's some poly bushing rod-ends that would be ideal for a street car:

Those are pretty neat. I've never seen an off the shelf product like that (only fabricated). A bit on the expensive side once you buy all four but it would make fabb'ing up poly links a 10 minute operation.


James

[16V4NRBRGR]

I'll be at the shop tomorrow, and I'll take off a wheel and measure to see if the NYLON-bushed rod-ends will fit within the dimensions of the clevis on the sub-frame and fit the connection to the top of the knuckle, from the dimensions provided by speedway. I'm going to see if I can find some tubing with a 12mm bore and 13mm (1/2") OD, to use as sleeves inside the center sleeve on the rod-ends, to make it simple and easy. The rod ends look wide enough to just use washers on the sides to center them in the subframe.

I'm going to need adjustable camber links for the 8v in a couple weeks so Ima get crackin' on the case. I prefer these to all metal rod-ends, since it'll be for my daily car.

[16V4NRBRGR]

This tubing should work as a sleeve from 12mm to 1/2", might require a little honing:
Order Stainless 304 Tube in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com

[Beatbox]

I finally measured the links I made. These dimensions are of the link only, and does not include the length of the rod end. I designed my links to have adjustability in both directions from stock, (shorter or longer) and took into consideration the jam nut width. I decided to use 1/2" rod ends instead of the 12mm because availabilty and price was much better. Therefore I drilled all the mounting holes out to 1/2"(subframe and spindle). The factory toe link used either an ecentric adjuster or a slotted hole, cant remember, on the subframe for adjustment. With rod ends this is unecesary so I welded 1/2 washers to the subframe to lock-out that adjustment.

I didn't note which lengths go where, so I'll check into this later.
1-9.25"
1-8.875
2-6.5"

And I'm worried that nylon bushings might bind. I'm not sure of this but some of these links might move in more than one plane. I know for sure that the lower control arm does, which you're most likely not replacing.

[16V4NRBRGR]

Thanks Beatbox! I'm also interested in the total width between the double shears on the subframe for reference regarding the width of the conical washers. I'm pretty sure the toe link uses an eccentric bolt, I had to adjust my left rear toe back into spec on my 8v a while back. So the double shear clevis on the subframe is probably slotted, with a raised slot for the eccentric to push against. I didn't get a great look because I was aligning with laser strings on a concrete floor, and didn't lift the car since I didn't want to re-align the toe-strings every time I made an adjustment.

If you have the lengths from eye-to-eye center from the stock links that would help to determine the right arm lengths for different styles of rod-ends, since the head of the rod end is bigger for those that use bushings or uniballs, and would require a shorter link to keep a range of shortening adjustment.

I think the nylon bushings will be okay for the camber link, maybe not for the rest of the links, since you're right, they do move in arcs not always perpendicular to the mounting bolts. Nylon's really tough stuff, and should hold up just as well, if not better to, polyurethane if it's greased. I'll be using the OEM rubber-ended links on the 8v, but plan on doing something similar to your setup on my 16v for track duty. I'll be spending more time inspecting (shaking down) and preparing the 16v for the rare times when it rolls.

[16V4NRBRGR]

I figure I'll add this safety note here:

A rod end should never be screwed into a link by a dimension less than half the diameter of the rod-end shank. This is to ensure that there's enough engaged threads for safety, especially important with aluminum female threads.

[JamesDean]

I need to fix my rear camber arms. The passenger side one is clunking a lot. I'll have my car parked for a few weeks as I work on things. I plan on taking them off and looking into repair/replacing the components on them.

[16V4NRBRGR]

I measured the rear links and their mounting points today:

Camber
Subframe clevis width: 1.46"
Knuckle end width: 1.42"
Length eye-to-eye center: 11.75"
Bolts: 12mm

Pull Strut / Control Arm Stay(top diagonal)
Subframe clevis width: 1.5"
Knuckle end width: 1.45"
Length eye-to-eye center: ~9.9"
Bolts: 12mm

Push Strut / Thrust Arm (bottom diagonal)
Subframe clevis width: 1.46"
Knuckle end width: 1.46"
Length eye-to-eye center: ~12.5"
Bolts: 12mm

Tie rod / Control Arm Strut (toe adjustment)
Subframe clevis width: 1.66"
Knuckle end width: 1.42"
Length eye-to-eye center: ~9.8"
Bolts: 12mm at subframe, 10mm nominal diameter metric taper on knuckle end

[16V4NRBRGR]

Well I did the math for some adjustable links using the Mr. Roadster Nylon-bushed rod-ends, and aluminum or swaged steel links it'll cost around $120 total including jamnuts, and 8 regular 12mm washers to space the rod ends at the ends. 9" would be suitable for stock ride height with 1 degree negative or lots of negative camber lowered, 10" for lowered with around degree negative.


Hex Aluminum links X 2, OR

Round Aluminum links X 2, OR

1" OD Steel links X 2, OR

7/8" OD Steel links X 2,
+

Mr. Roadster Nylon-bushed rod-ends X 4,
+
5/8-18 RH Jamnuts X 2 & 5/8-18 LH Jamnuts X 2
+
12mm ID 1mm thick washers X 8
+
12" of 0.500" OD, 0.460" ID 304 Stainless tubing to adapt 1/2" ID rod ends to 12mm bolts, hacksaw, file, slide in.

Sounds a whole lot more reasonable than $200-300 for items that are off-the-shelf except for the spacer bushings.

For racing, PPM offers links with rod ends that can be greased from the inside-out with zirc fittings, kinda cool, because the teflon lined rod ends that don't require lubrication develop slop more quickly on production cars than the steel on steel variety that require greasing. I'm not sure how strong the rod ends are, since they obviously have a hollow shank.

This company makes seals for rod ends, to keep dirt out:
Seals-It
They would be great for the greasable kind, just squirt some grease into the zirc fittings, and wipe away the excess and dust that escape the seals!

[16V4NRBRGR]

HOORAY BEER!


Now that wasn't so hard, we need more of these so all of the dimensions of stuff are available without first taking your car apart. It saves lots of time and money.

Ima have that beer now.

[veedubfreak86]

you rock bro , i am sure not just myself but the REV thanks you

[16V4NRBRGR]

Hopefully the setup like Beatbox's car with all four links will be possible using this same formula, the only differences would be drilling out all of the bolt holes for 1/2" or AN8 bolts and using 1/2" ID conical misalignment washers to center the rod ends. With these ready made links, it isn't necessary to weld, unless you'd like the high strength of steel combined with nice wrench flats, since the swaged steel links are lacking that very important feature.

I'm interested in seeing what universal polyurethane bushings have the right dimensions for the rear inner spring link pivot at the subframe. The outer one is already a steel balljoint, so it's all good. EDIT, found it! From dimensions I took off of a brand new Febi inner spring link bushing:

Energy Suspension 9.9482 Flange Type Bushing

If anybody's got some front a-arm bushings sitting around we can do the same thing. There has to be a universal bushing set with the right dimensions to work already out there.
Energy Suspension Parts - Universal Link - Flange Type Bushings Information

I've been itching to get my hands dirty on this subject for a while, it's my pleasure!

[16V4NRBRGR]

2 91008001-STR 4 Bar Ends - 11 Degree Shank
$12.99 $25.98
STYLE: Str

2 91008002 Forged Steel 4-Bar End - Straight Shank/LH Thread
$14.99 $29.98

2 1750246 Jam Nut 5/8 Inch RH Raw
$0.99 $1.98

2 1750446 Jam Nut 5/8" LH Raw
$0.99 $1.98

Edit: Make sure to get 9" long links maximum, 10" is too long.
2 91034158-9 ALUMINUM TIE ROD SLEEVE, 5/8"
$7.99 $15.98
LENGTH: 9

Current Charge Summary
Sub Total: $75.90

Add another $10 or so for shipping, plus another $10 or so for the stainless steel tubing for the metric adapters, plus $2 for 12mm washers, $98 Total. Not too shabby, just saved $200.

I'll post up more when I get to installing them.